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Foreign Proper Nouns in Chinese (split from Chinese names)
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Anonymous -

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSkillet

I'm of two minds about this. Obviously it'll be easier for me if the CHinese started using English
place names for everything - but then, I know lots of people really still know zero english - and
it's a big disadvantage for them.

But on the other hand, I really dislike hearing "Si-ti-vu Fe-lan-ci-si" instead of Steve Francis

The Chinese writing system consists of only Hanzi, just like the English writing system consits of
only Roman alphabet letters. Why should Chinese speakers incorporate Roman alphabet letters when
they're writing? Both Japanese and Korean translate names of foreign places and people into their
own writing systems as well (Kana and Hangul respectively).

Also, it would be a pain for non-English speakers to try to read and/or pronounce names written in
English. For one thing, English isn't "pronounced the way it's spelled" like Spanish or Hanyu
Pinyin. Each letter, vowels specifically, can be prounouced differently. For example, the letter
"A" can be pronounced "ah", "eh", "aeh"... etc. Also, there are "silent letters" and different
ways of spelling to make the same sounds... etc. Unless the person is fluent in English, he or she
would have a hard time pronouncing the names. Also, why should everyone learn English just so they
can read names of foriegn places and people.

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holyman -

Quote:

Originally Posted by wix

I wonder why it is even necessary to transliterate foreign names into Chinese in this day and age.
Why not simply write them in the roman alphabet?

wad about asking foreigners to simply write down chinese names in chinese characters and make them
read like any chinese? equally difficult isn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by confucious

...but one of my best friends who works in Washington DC has a Chinese name which uses the exact
same characters, but in a different order (Wei Zhi Ming)
I also took notice of Joanne's Chinese name and can relate to what she experienced. Many names
given to foreign people or places by Chinese people often seem to be far from being the best
syllables that sound close to the transliteration. There seems to be a reluctance among Chinese to
use certain syllables and characters and I haven't found much justification for it. That's why
we're stuck with Jianada for Canada instead of the obvious Ka-na-da and Hawaii comes out sounding
like Xiaweiyi instead of Ha-wai-yi. I would love to go toe to toe with the person in China
responsible for coming up with the Chinese names for foreign celebrities and places. I know my
Chinese name creations would always sound more like the original foreign word and they would just
stand there and disagree with me for the sake of argument. "Xiaweiyi!" Give me a break!

thats because after the 1840 opium war, foreigners are allowed to arrive in china thru a few
'trading' ports, and canton is one of them. naturally a lot of foreign names were translated from
cantonese then reported to the central govt in beijing. for america, 'ya-mei-li-jian hezhong guo'
is united states(or federated states, 'hezhong guo') of 'ah-mui-li-gan' (american). hawaii is
'xia-wei-yi' cos 'xia-wei-yi' is 'ha-wai-yi' in cantonese. on the other hand, 'amoy' is 'xiamen'
cos in fujian dialects, xiamen is 'eh meng', foreigners got it a bit twisted and it became 'amoy'.

wix -

Quote:

Originally Posted by holyman

'amoy' is 'xiamen' cos in fujian dialects, xiamen is 'eh meng', foreigners got it a bit twisted
and it became 'amoy'.

Actually Amoy comes from Minbei or the Fuzhou dialect. Nasal sounds make it difficult for for
foreigners to pronounce it in Minnan.

I agree that many of these names originated from Cantonese. These days there are often different
names for places or countries in Taiwan, Hong Kong and China.

Interestingly New York in Minnan sounds remarkably similar to the sound in English.  pinyin: niu
yue and in Minnan it is pronounced niu-iok. I'm sure there are other similar examples,
particularly from Cantonese.

ChouDoufu -

I always find it interesting how the Chinese try to add meaning in the names of of foreigners.
Like at one point the Chinese press changed Bin Laden's name so that it had the character for
"egg" which doesn't have good connotations... I don't think you can expect foreign countries to
call people by their true names, though it would be nice. Every country does the best it can
within the confines of their language.

Anonymous -

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChouDoufu

Like at one point the Chinese press changed Bin Laden's name so that it had the character for
"egg" which doesn't have good connotations...

Where did you see this at? The only translation I've seen in the newspapers is "Bin La Ding"

holyman -

some place translated that as 'bin la dan(egg)', some as 'bin la deng'.

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  > Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Chinese Idiom Rally II.
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nnt -

Todo esto es vacío 满纸空言 man3 zhi3 kong1 yan2

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Barbara -

non capisco l'Espagnol and, anyway, what you’re saying is rather 言之无物 yan2 zhi1 wu2 wu4

nnt -

kritik? 物议沸腾 wu4 yi4 fei4 teng2

Barbara -

Eso sí que no! just getting a bit dizzy 腾云驾雾 teng2 yun2 jia4 wu4

nnt -

You've forgotten a ¡ :!: : ¡Eso sí que no!
Never mind, everything is clear now :idea: , as you understand Spanish and I German: 雾散日出
wu4 san4 ri4 (Japan ) chu1

Barbara -

haven't we done enough boasting 出头露面 chu1 tou2 lu4 mian4 吗?

nnt -

You're right, let's change our look: 面目一新 mian4 mu4 yi1 xin1

Barbara -

careful that this change isn't going to turn into 新瓶装旧酒 xin1 ping2 yhuang1 jiu4 jiu3

nnt -

Wine get better with age, and does not need publicity: 酒好人自来 jiu3 hao3 ren2 zi4 lai2

Barbara -

right, on the other hand it's a hell of a lot of trouble to get it in the first place 来之不易
lai2 zhi1 bu4 yi4

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  > Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Husband
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roddy -

Zhangfu and Qizi are definitely used here in Beijing. I'd say airen is maybe a bit more common
than laogong / laopo as well (then talking to third parties, anyway. Not sure what they call each
other in private.)

Roddy

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smithsgj -

Quest absolutely and I qualify what *I* said: zhang and qi are the formal document forms in Taiwan
too.

Also Roddy mentioned in private. My mother-in-law used to *address* her husband as Zhang. I think
he used to call her Zi or sth cos it was the last bit of her given name. All women of her age have
Zi as the last bit of their middle name: it's a Japanese thing.

Airen?!?! pmsl... Do they still use 'neiren' ever -- like "her indoors"?

Quest -

内子？That used to mean wife.
爱人is used often to mention your spouse to other people.

skylee -

內子/外子 are only used when the conversation has to be very polite. Some older folks still
use "我(的)女人" to refer to their wives.

I think 愛人 is never used in HK to mention one's spouse to other people (unless when joking).
We say 老公/老婆 (informally) or 先生/太太 (less informally).

pazu -

I used to know a guy who would prefer to call her wife as, "我個乞衣婆", and his sons as
"我班乞衣仔".

so lit it means "my beggar wife" and "my beggar sons"... I know it would be a custom for some
people to diminish oneself for introduction, e.g. (小的草字上建下華, little one like me,
has a "grass" name of Jian followed by Hua.), but it was weired to my ears to hear somebody
calling his family "beggars".

skylee -

To give an even humbler feel, one could call his wife "拙荊" or even "賤內". I wonder if there
are similar terms to refer to one's husband.

smithsgj -

Somehow I doubt it.

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Chinese Idiom Rally
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Barbara -

sorry, I seem to have gallopped into a dead-end ...

ok, let's hope that we follow the "right" cause 马首是瞻

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nnt -

... not a dead end, just a crossroads , because when whe hear the clttering of horse hoofs
蹄声笃笃 ti2 sheng1 du3 du3 , we have to 瞻前顾后 zhan1 qian2 gu4 hou4 to choose one
direction...

Barbara -

and then unhesitatingly ... 后发制人

nnt -

...Alas, you can trust nobody, and the human heart is unfathomable 人心难测定 ren2 xin1 nan2
ce4

nnt -

...Sorry for the typing mistake (fifth character ), but as it seems to be a real dead end, let's
try another one, to cheer up everyone:人心振奋 ren2 xin1 zhen4 fen4

Barbara -

and he sits there 左思右想 (another crossroad turned up, couldn't take your 定 you so
conveniently placed for me, would have been cheating ) and starts to 想入非非 ...

nnt -

...is daydreaming so unusual 非同小可fei1 tong2 xiao3 ke3?

Barbara -

is daydreaming to the point of 可歌可泣 ... but 泣不成声 ...

nnt -

even if it's soundless, it's still heard by Heaven: 声闻于天 sheng1 wen2 yu2 tian1

Barbara -

and heaven, of course, is said to be 天公地道

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  > Chinese Culture > Music
Cui Jian in Wuhan
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akdn -

Sorry this might be a bit late. But, only just found out today. Cui Jian has a gig in Wuhan this
Friday night (June 3). His official site has more info about it

I'm not a huge fan, although the new album certainly is interestingly different from anything else
I've heard him do. I got a ticket nevertheless. Should be cool. Live music nearly always is, and
Wuhan doesn't get much of it (apart from two days last year when Andy Lao and Jay Zhou played
back-to-back nights in the football stadium...)

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